You take sex away from people it’s got to come from somewhere and it’s not going to come from the kids anymore: Transcript of KCTU show just webcast

*
By Kay Ebeling

Just because I do it for a living, I transcribed Educating to End Abuse just now as it was webcast, and am posting it here. I know I said next post would be a report with photos of the Walk Across Oregon to End Child Abuse in Portland last weekend, and that post will be up by Saturday. But, just because I do it for a living and it felt right, here is a rough transcript of the show that just aired on KCTU Wichita, River City Forum.

On screen were Peggy Warren, producer of the show, and Sheryl Nutt, station owner. John Brown from Australia managed to come in with video using Skype. The connection was lost a bit into the program, and John then came in by telephone, but the video connection has so much potential for future webcasts. Also by phone was Ken Kociorek from San Diego.

Watch here at City of Angels for the announcement of next month's guest on Educating to End Abuse from Wichita.

FIRST QUESTION TO JOHN BROWN in Australia was, what is the September One Initiative:

JOHN BROWN: The September 1 initiative aim is simply to bring to the world a definitive and appropriate solution to the global clergy abuse crisis. The September One Initiative is asking for government, church, and religion to sit at the table as responsible global citizens and solve this crisis that's caused so many men women and children to be the subject of rape across the planet. That's pretty well where I start from Sheryl.

SHERYL NUTT: We're talking to John on Skype which is an exciting connection, because it’s an internet connection

PEGGY WARREN: You mention the difficulty you had raising your child, which goes across the board with adult victims of pedohpilia.

JOHN: I was raped many-many times by nuns, by priests, and I got through that through a good portion of my life until I wanted to raise my child in a safe environment, and once I attempted to do that, I found that I came into conflict with community services, with government, with police, and with religion itself. And I took a good look at it, and we can identify the evidence is there that the Catholic Church has for hundreds if not thousands of years, had a policy of keeping secret the sexual abuse of children. And it has undertaken a global process, where it has manipulated whole societies and political systems into taking part of that coverup of the abuse.

The Catholic Church has clearly failed society, the evidence is it’s an organization that's run by damaged and seriously affected men, men who are able to provide quite easily a global standard to keep the sexual abuse of children a secret, yet they're unable to provide a single policy towards providing safety of children in our current everyday life.

There is no other way to describe the total failure when the leading light of Christianity is so constipated in its own sexual dysfuncionality to -

SHERYL: Unable or unwilling?

JOHN: Either way it’s a danger to society when it holds the position in society that it does. And it blackmails our entire political systems, and it blackmails its own followers, majority of which admit the existing hierarchy has to come down, has to finish. These affected men are in positions of power and they're not willing to go, despite the evidence of [INAUDIBLE] that's there for the whole world to see.

*************
KEN: I'm still Catholic, I'm staying around, you're not going to get rid of me.

JOHN: This is our church.
*************************

PEGGY: Virtus programs are in most Catholic Churches in America today. Does Australian Catholic Church have anything similar to that in place?

JOHN: We've had a great deal of silence here. We've looked at the policies of Catholic Churches and schools around the country and it appears that it’s a few concerned teachers get together over a pot of tea and put one together. There must be in this country ten thousand different policies and they're played on the wing. Some of them are just totally dysfunctional. There’s no standardization here, there’s only dissention and argument and a lot of people who have moral and ethical dilemmas, and that's understandable, but it’s a shame they put that in the way of progress in society and progress of putting this crisis to an end.

SHERYL: Ken, are you there?

KEN KOCIOREK: Yes I am dear lady, [TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY ] From kindergarten to fourth grade, the nuns would ridicule and abuse me and a few other things we won’t get into the horrors of. My mother finally got me out of the school in the fourth grade. Then In San Diego there were trials and the archdiocese saying they won’t pay and it triggered something in me.

I started to go back to the Buffalo Diocese and I challenged them, I filled out the paperwork and they threw it in the trash can three and a half years ago. I said you know what if I can’t get you on the courtroom I’ll get you on the street. I have a TV show that goes to Catholic Churches around the country.

I wear the tshirt and it’s growing, moving forward positively.

Ken: I close Roman Catholic churches. There’s one. Make the Vatican [TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY ]
I just close them.

PEG: How do you find the Catholics to email?

KEN: I know how to get to the Catholics, I know how to get in the email.

PEG: You still go to Mass in Catholic churches?

KEN: I'm still Catholic, I'm staying around, you're not going to get rid of me.

JOHN: This is our church.

KEN: The bad people go silent, the good people want to know what's going on.

JOHN: This is our church.

PEGGY: Have you met with diocesan officials in San Diego?

KEN: Yes, but they just avoid me because they don’t want to hear me. I have a channel on YouTube, called sex starved clergy, hopefully that doesn't offend anyone, but that's what they are, they do not care for me.

SHERYL: You think? [LAUGHING]

KEN: You take sex away from people it’s got to come from somewhere and it’s not going to come from the kids anymore- [TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY]

PEG: There’s still abuse in Jewish and all religions but I do think the Catholic Church does attract more deviants, but I don't think celibacy is the reason. I do - it’s not all about not having sex.

KEN: It attracts some very wicked cruel people, and nuns are the perfect example - my first hand experience with nuns. I tried to call Sisters of Mercy in Buffalo New York and they hung up on me. Because they all have fictitious names, they're not real.

PEG: Have you contacted former classmates?

KEN: No one wants to cooperate, one was hit in the lunch line, I haven’t been able to get hold of anybody among my classmates that will work for me. They won’t work with me, just like my family has cut me off, but they weren’t there to witness it. So I’ve turned to the street and met wonderful people like John Cindy yourself, Kay, when they've seen the t-shirt I’ve never seen people laugh so much. So we took it to the streets.

PEG: I really do think law enforcement in the United States is slowly coming around. Ken, is there anything you could tell our viewing audience, what can the average person do?

KEN: I’ll send them a free t-shirt and they can wear that around. Get in touch with the local Catholic church and find out if survivors are okay and they'll find out they're not, as most of them are wacked out like I am.

SHERYL: We'll come back to you after we take this call.

BOB: I'm watching the program and I see a survivor from Australia, someone from San Diego and you two ladies. I'm a survivor also, but I'm not spending my energy [SOUNDS LIKE] dribbling all over the Catholic Church, I'm spending my energy trying to encourage those that have been sexually abused to step forward and work together to prevent sexual abuse of all children. If you think it’s just a Catholic Church issue, that’s ignorant. We have sexual abuse throughout all society. I don't understand why everybody just wants to address their anger and frustration at a failing institution like the Catholic Church. Let’s put our energy into preventing sexual abuse.

SHERYL: I agree, I think sexual abuse is so pervasive, it has come into every aspect of our lives. The Church is only a small percentage of it, but I think sometimes people focus on the Church because it tries so hard to shield itself.

BOB: So did our schools, so did Uncle Louie and Aunt Sally.

PEG: We have had others here focusing on incest and other abuse, in Kansas we're trying to get the Statute of Limitations lengthened and we've had guests from all different denominations.

BOB: All sexual abuse or just those in the Catholic Church?

PEG: All types of sexual abuse.

BOB: [OVERLAPPING] I wish these guys would use their energy on the cause of all, not on the failing institutions like the Catholic Church.

PEG: The only institution fighting the statute of limitations is the catholic church.

BOB: I disagree with that.

PEG: Well here in Kansas that was-

BOB: [OVERLAPPING] Well I disagree, because I was in Kansas.

KEN: Bob, I’d be honored to be part of your program to stop the abuse. I’d be honored to work with you.

SHERYL: John, are you still with us? We lost John. Bob made a good point, this is not anything new. Sexual abuse towards children is a heinous offense and it happens everywhere.

KEN: Until legislation is passed I will continue to close Roman Catholic churches, I'm not waiting for legislation.

PEG: You latch onto what has directly affected you. The legislation in most states on the SOL will affect all children. Even doing a little bit is better than not doing anything.

KEN: I'm going to continue closing churches.

S: Another caller?

SYBIL: Good morning. I agree with Bob, it could be physicians and teachers and instead of dwelling on the pain, that's not helping people to get better.

SHERYL: The Church has been reluctant to get counseling for people who do need help after abuse. They need to help financially with that issue, because that's one of the reasons people don't seek help, they can’t afford it.

SYBIL: The clergymen should take a lie detector and get a background check before you become a clergyman or anything, you need to be background checked.

PEG: In Maine there is a bill introduced this session that addresses exactly that. You've got to start somewhere, that's a good start, because a lot of these guys don't have a record.

KEN: Sybil, you've got a great point and also what do you think of all clergy - I want them registered with child services, I don't care if they've been good or bad, they should be registered. And we'll be evolved into a safer Catholic Church or I’ll continue to close them down.

S: Another caller, Joe? Good evening. Ken, apparently Joe was unable to connect. [OFF CAMERA CONVERSATION] John, is that you?

JOHN: Sorry, we had a technical glitch with our internet. [LAUGHTER]

SH: While you were gone a couple people called, one lady suggested all clergy should have a background check.

JOHN: We have that system here in Australia, but unfortunately some areas of the hierarchy don't consider nuns part of the clergy, in other parts of the country, priests don't even bother to get the green card as we call it here. It doesn't do a great deal of good. But the Church doesn't bother to monitor to make sure all its priests and clergy are monitored and checked out.

PEG: Yeah, they can have so many policies and programs, but until they take action, which I don't think a lot of us have seen, action-

JOHN: We're not asking for the world, just the Catholic Church. This is an organization that rules with power, and it’s capable of huge things on this Earth. Just give us one policy.

SHERYL: Another caller on the line,

JOE: Yeah several things. I'm almost sixty seven years old, gosh was abused over fifty-five years ago by the friendly parish priest. Ken mentioned he’s alienated from his family and this issue does alienate people from their families. My brothers and sisters will not talk to me about this, and they all know about it. My wife and grand kids are very supportive I'm lucky about that.

I agree with Bob that this goes on in all sectors of society not just the Catholic Church. But what makes it worse for me, not minimalizing anybody’s abuse, what makes it worse for me is …

You know, we were told things like I have the power to send you to heaven or hell. The spiritual advisor is not supposed to be a rapist. Sure, there’s more teachers that do this than priests, well duh, there’s a lot more teachers than preists.

I’ve been all the way across the United States and Canada about this issue and I just can’t believe how horrific the stories are that come out about the sexual abuse at the hands of these men of God.

SHERYL: That's what people find so horrific, is not only is your body violated but also your faith is violated and where do you go then.

PEG: Yeah you can’t go to your pastor for counseling if it's your pastor who's abusing you, especially if you've been told some wacked out story like that your parents will be killed.

JOE: Both of my parents died without ever knowing that two of their sons was abused by the priest. My dad was a very-very strict Catholic and he didn't trust anybody in the world, EXCEPT for Catholic priests.

PEG: It’s that automatic trust that not only Catholics but society in general have for clergy. That's why I'm trying to get them on a list of professionals in this state - that's how they get in. They abuse their power and-

JOE: Yes, I'm aware that this goes on all over the place, but in my mind, being raised the way I was that the priest could walk on water, he was just one step below Jesus, how do you at ten years old rationalize what Jesus is doing to you and then on top of it all, he was giving me alcohol to make me compliant. I knew what it was like to get a buzz from alcohol when I was ten years old.

SH: Thank you, Joe, we'll go on to next caller Mary.

MARY: I was abused by a priest at age nine. What I’ve seen here in St. Louis is, Persons tend to go to the church first, not other authority figures, and that's how the church is able to hide abusers.

SH: Then they protect the priest not the abused.

MARY: I still see it here in St. Louis where things become public but the parents refuse to go to the police, and a minor child cannot do it without the parents’ cooperation, so the priests continue to be in the parishes.

PEGGY: That is an example of how Catholic parents are groomed. If there is a problem in your household, you go to the church even if it’s the church doing it.

MARY: Groomed is a good word for it, the priest who abused me abused my parents first by grooming them.

SH: Back to Ken. Any comments?

KEN: First I want to thank you ladies for letting this happen, I think we're making history, John would agree. It’s getting fixed.

SH: It needs to get fixed. One thing the Church could do is make sure that whenever a child is alone with a priest, as in the current altar servers, they always have a chaperone. That would be a logical step to take.

******************
JOHN: 'We put up $42 million to anyone who can come up with an improved way of thinking. For government, religion, and victims to come to the table, sit down, and work together, for a solution.'

(ME: $42 million? Billed to the church, I suppose)
*******************************

KEN: The Vatican used to tell us the world was flat, the sun revolved around the Earth, and now they're saying it’s alright to have these sick clergy, but I'm not buying into it anymore.

JOHN: It’s ground breaking here. What I heard listening to those stories just now, they're the same stories I hear from Canada, Costa Rica, the Philippines, Africa, New Zealand, I can name country after country. Each one experiences this same horror on a personal level across the country. Millions of children are sexually abused by the largest identified, globally connected pedophile ring this planet has ever experienced. And the Church has manipulated society to protect it. That needs to end.

PEG: What can people do to help this situation?

JOHN: Ken and I are looking for a peaceful solution. We put up $42 million to anyone who can come up with an improved way of thinking. For government, religion, and victims to come to the table, sit down, and work together, for a solution.

That's the first step you do in any problem. We can’t get the Catholic Church to do this. I’ve personally emailed the Vatican, I’ve emailed the Queen, politicians on every level, and we're asking them to address this as what it is, a global abuse crisis.

The stories you hear are the same stories you hear in any city on this planet.

SH: This is a topic that makes people really uncomfortable to talk about but it has to be talked about.

JOHN: These men are damaged and broken, they're sociopaths, they're not functional, they don't function the same way parents do. A parent has as its first responsibility the protection of its offspring. When a religion interferes with that, it’s at fault, it shows how severely broken it is.

The Catholic Church over thousands of years has been able to deny things like the shape of the Earth. If a priest speaks out today, he’s condemned for not keeping (the sexual abuse) secret.

The teaching of the Catholic Church is that priests are above the law. Priests have a right to rape women and children at their leisure, as they please. And they have the right to be above the law and be protected.

When you have men falsely representing God, this is what you get. When you tend towards total failure in a society, what you have is what you get. There’s not a person listening in here today that needs to be a rocket scientist to say there are better ways than this.

SH: But first you've got to get their attention.

JOHN: The only people on the planet who don't get it are the Catholic hierarchy and those they've deceived in political and business systems. These people have grown to build an entire industry to suck off the destruction and rape and pillage by the church for centuries, and they stand up in front of us on Television as good Catholics.

SH: Which makes you wonder what their definition of good is.

JOHN: As good as the men they work for.

KEN: You look at the Pope, would you hire him to run your company? He can’t even get out of a chair.

SH: What really bothered me about when the pope was in the United States, he made this blanket apology about past abuses, he spoke as though it was no longer an issue. Well it is an issue. They're not past abuses, they're present abuses, and there is no policy against that.

KEN: Also the Vatican was involved in financing the Nazis and extermination of the Jews, plus with the American Indians and other ethnic groups that were wiped out, those orders came from the Vatican. They've built wealth on intimidating people and causing fear. Their churches sure are closing fast though.

PEGGY: You do make a good point about the pope. He says he now wants to go into all the religious sister communities and make sure they're still following the teachings of Rome. So he can have his little minions from Rome hit all the convents around the United States, why can’t he have some counselors or therapists hit all the Catholic -

KEN: How about customer service? Why did they stop having clergy be married? Why did that stop? Why do nuns have fictitious names? I can’t find out the names of the nuns that abused me, as no one will talk to me, and I'm one of their customers.

PEG: Ken approaches things in a different way. I don't think there’s any changes possible in the Catholic Church, I focus on legislation. But it’s interesting the approach Ken is taking to work through this from the inside, that's why I wanted to share what he’s doing in California.

(Attempts to connect with caller Bob to no avail.)

SH: Peggy says you're noticing success with your system.

KEN: I’ve found people who six months ago were suicidal, now they can’t stop laughing.

PEG: You have to laugh about this craziness.

KEN: You have to laugh. Anyone who wants a free t-shirt, I don't want any money, I send them around the world.

PEG: What website can they go to do get that t-shirt.

KEN: Google September 1 2001. Or go to YouTube and type in Molested Catholic.

PEG: Why the colors yellow and purple on the tshirts?

KEN: The colors are- I remember purple from the church all the time, so I thought purple was cool. And gold, I know those are the predominant colors when you go to church.

KEN: I’ve spoken to people all over the world about this. The nuns still do strike left handed people. For some reason the Catholic Church doesn't like left handed people. I had a nun in the lunch line, Sister Mary Fitzgerald, she’d grab me by my hand, then grab me by the crotch and pick me up -

PEG: If anyone watching remembers Ken’s school.

KEN: In [SOUNDS LIKE] Atavia, New York run by the craziest group of nuns. 1963 to 1967 kindergarten to fourth grade.

BOB's CALL COMES IN:

BOB: You mention law enforcement, in Kansas, the criminal law does not have a situation where a member of the clergy uses their power or position for abuse, Kansas needs to change that law, like they have for doctors and everybody else. When they change that law, make sure they don't play the game that the priests weren’t doing their duties.

Now about the mothers. In the old days, if the cops came and took out the child, they’d scare everybody, that's changing. Now in forensics interviewing, they put children in little rooms, with little chairs, a child friendly environment. Cameras are hidden in the walls. That way a child does not have to sit on a witness stand.

So we've stopped that crap that the idea of the abuse was caused by somebody else. Clergy abuse survivors have gotten a lot of new legislation.

Why spend all this energy against a Catholic Church, just get away from it. If you were married to me and I didn't come home at night because I was drinking and out with another woman, you’d divorce my butt. The church has destroyed your life, divorce it.

SH: WE'RE running out of time-

BOB: Up until five years ago, law enforcement didn’t have the knowledge they have now. Cops, social workers, that whole fabric of our society are learning from clergy sexual abuse survivors who have been joined by others - hey, I encourage San Diego --

SH: WE'RE out of time, thank you for your call. John and Ken, going to try something real quick. Have I got you both there. We're about to leave, thank you both for joining us this evening and sharing this information.

THEME MUSIC UP

KEN: Thank you, ladies, you're the ones who need to be thanked, nor me.

SHERYL: Thanks for watching and thanks for joining us, fellows.
***********

Don't forget to click City of Angels' PayPal button to help keep this blog alive and thriving...
*********************